creating more flexible product options

[bristweb]

the more i work with the product options of 3dcart, the more i find i am limited to what i can do.

The problem:

1. It is impossible to create a system that enables owners to manage their product options that can account for every type of situation. The current system may be acceptable for products that simply have a 'red/green/blue' type option. But many products require much more involved options systems.
2. The current options system is very time consuming for products with many options. In fact, many of our products take up to 1 minute to load in the administration!
3. design is very limited. on some options, i may want to apply special styling to draw attention or provide illustration. this is not possible to do on the current system

in a previous post i had requested the possibility to add custom styling to each option...but as i become more familiar with this system, i believe that this is not the right path.

The solution:
In exactly the same way I LOVE how 3dcart gives complete flexibility on the design of the website through the use of templates, i would like the same process applied to the product options. instead of (or in addition to) the current list of product options, each product should have space for completely custom code for product options. basically, everything within the form tags.

example limitations:

1. suppose you have a product that has 20 sizes and 20 colors. however, certain size/color combinations are not allowed. this is currently not possible
2. you are selling car parts and visitors must select a make/model. you would have to force visitors to see every model car regardless of the make!
3. what if you want to promote a specific option that no other companies offer. ex: FREE laser engraving, just put your name here:....but it doesn't receive much attention because it blends with all the other options
4. what if you want image rollovers to help illustrate what each option is...but they don't fit because you have no control where the images are shown...it doesn't work!

[Inviting Ways]

YES! YES! YES! I need this drastically...with the kind of customization available on my products (invitations & stationery), more flexibility and capabilities with the options. It's really my only gripe so far with 3Dcart.

And bristweb...you did a great job explaining this. I tried to inform support about what I'd like to see happen and I had such hard time explaining it clearly...now I can simply point them to your post.

[ScribeTime]

Yes, I'd like to see the same thing.

[JLynn]

Me too! I would love to see improvements made to not only the OPTIONS but the File Manager for pictures too (as outlined in a couple other posts). As not only do you have options that may be category specific or sub-category specific - but then within the sub-categories, you may have certain products that require additional options. So although having the global options are nice...they are not always effective and user friendly because of the additional single options (and I'm still not sure that they are linked to the template as in a few instances I've tested making changes and those that are set in the category global options don't seem to update - so I'm having to delete the global and re-do).

Even if we had better control over choosing the single options for our categories and global options per category (namely a screen where you checked off what you wanted from the single options and indicated the sort) would be helpful. By this I mean having one screen of ALL the options and then choosing from there to set up a next level for Masters - to Global Categories (similar to the way we do products and apply them to a sub-cat which is applied to a main cat)

After numerous attempts and failures to get my options in sort order...I wound up making a written chart by category column and also line by line numbers going down to help me get the sort correct between the global options, category specific options, and single extra options and gave them all corresponding sort numbers - so no matter where the options were being pulled from and what category I was working in - they would all be in the correct designated sort order in the actual product view.

Example...my gift wrapping option shows up in my Master Earrings, Master Bracelets, Master Necklaces - (which by the way I had to re-type this option three separate times as there is no way to duplicate an exisiting option to use in another category or choose the same option multiple times from an option list - and these Master sorts are set up to use under the global sub-cat page as they contain just the options that are common for ALL the products in a specific sub category). Then I have the Product specific options (say some jewelry pieces are only available in sterling silver...require an individual option that is inserted through the individual product option page or by designating it in an import) are done separately. Since I wanted the gift wrapping and Comment/Question Text Box at the bottom of the options (no matter what Global Option category) - I set the sort number in each Master the same (e.g. #9 and #10). So although there may only be 4 total options in one Master Category option...instead of having them in sort order of 1,2,3,4 - it may be that the sort order reads 0, 5, 9, 10. Doing it this way, always keeps the Masters (used for global category options) and the single options (such as a Metal or color choice depending on the product) in sort order. Hope that makes sense - it's really a lot easier to see in a spreadsheet. But I think for those that have multiple and product specific options that change - you know what I'm saying...

This is why having one screen that shows ALL your individual options, with a column for checking off that option, a column to designate the sort order, (with the possibility of adding a "update all" option versus having to update each individual one) would be SO helpful and save a lot of admin time. Equally having the option to group single options and create Masters for sub categories and main categories.

With regard to the drop images and rollovers - that would be awesome. I played around with my thumbnail images and reduced the size so I at least had images for my earring closures & clasp styles in the drop down menu but if it were a rollover/pop-up on the checkbox, it would certainly create a more professional image. It would also be nice to have a more advanced option for the help image (I also was asking about this in another post) - where the customer would mouse over and mouse out over "extra" information whether it's a graphic, chart, pdf file of different font/styles/color, etc. - I hate it when you have a popup and then have to manually shut it down - or worse yet a line of popups on your bottom bar

I guess I wouldn't call it limitations - as the get-around for designating product specific options is do-able by utilizing the global options and single options and designating/connecting all the sort orders - but it's the admin time issue (whether you choose to do each specific option by the product detail pages OR do an import which is easy to mess up if you're not paying attention to the spacing, caps, etc.) that I totally agree with.

Bristweb...you've made some terrific points and the Make/Model thing you mention is the same as Jewelry Collections for me. Currently I'm utilizing the Sort by Manufacturer as my Sort by Jewelry Collection...but the downside to this is that I don't have any further depth in the Collection (like you would in the product categories and sub-categories sort). So it would be nice to have the option of adding at least one additional "Sort by" that functioned like the general product category ones.

Which also snowballs to the Listing Page...with SO many users asking about the layout of this page, it would make sense to have various templates to choose your set up from (versus just one listing page that everyone seems to be trying to change anyways - moving the price under the image, utilizing more blank space so it's more of a one page view and flip-flopping some blocks).

[marcuso]

We are also disatisfied with the implementation of options....

[bristweb]

Originally Posted by JLynn

Me too! I would love to see improvements made to not only the OPTIONS but the File Manager for pictures too (as outlined in a couple other posts). As not only do you have options that may be category specific or sub-category specific - but then within the sub-categories, you may have certain products that require additional options.

thanks for the support. however, i'm a little confused by this part, it looks like something that maybe should be on a different post/topic?

Originally Posted by JLynn

After numerous attempts and failures to get my options in sort order...I wound up making a written chart

Tip: instead of incrementing by 1,2,3, do it by tens or hundreds. (100, 200, 300) this way if you miss something, you can stick it between without having to redo the entire list...giving you a final list something like (100, 200, 250, 275, 300, 350, 400, 500...)

Originally Posted by JLynn

Example...my gift wrapping option shows up in my Master Earrings, Master Bracelets, Master Necklaces - (which by the way I had to re-type this option three separate times as there is no way to duplicate an exisiting option to use in another category or choose the same option multiple times from an option list - and these Master sorts are set up to use under the global sub-cat page as they contain just the options that are common for ALL the products in a specific sub category).

This was a huge time killer for us too. since you cannot copy/paste product options...even if you have two options templates that are very similar, they must be completely done by hand again....thus why i like the idea of a simple HTML area where we can just paste code.

Originally Posted by JLynn

This is why having one screen that shows ALL your individual options, with a column for checking off that option, a column to designate the sort order, (with the possibility of adding a "update all" option versus having to update each individual one) would be SO helpful

I think that this might be already possible in a way. just create an option template with all your options, and then copy it to your product and delete/hide the options you dont want. this may work for you, but for most stores, having a list of all options would be impractical....

Originally Posted by JLynn

It would also be nice to have a more advanced option for the help image (I also was asking about this in another post) - where the customer would mouse over and mouse out over "extra" information

i implemented something like this: http://demos.mootools.net/Tips
but since there are limits to how the data is pulled in 3dcart, i decided to scrap it. again, would be resolved with HTML AREA.

Originally Posted by JLynn

So it would be nice to have the option of adding at least one additional "Sort by" that functioned like the general product category ones.

Which also snowballs to the Listing Page...with SO many users asking about the layout of this page, it would make sense to have various templates to choose your set up from

these are good subjects for another post, and i agree. but...if given a choice, i would prefer them to spend more time developing the software itself than creating more templates which we already have the freedom to change on our own


what a long post!

[JLynn]

For your first point...mine was just a General Option statement...meaning you can set up Global options that are common for certain Category/Sub-Categories, but that you may have product specific options that need to be set up through a "master grouping option" or single option as well.

Thanks for the tens or hundreds tips!

Not being able to duplicate an option is a killer. For people like me (and I know I'm not alone...) who know a little html, comfortable doing basic things with the codes, very proficient with a variety of software programs...pasting the code probably would be a lot quicker for you than me - I would have to analyze my moves and triple check to make sure I wasn't messing something up = time lost again. Whereas if you had an Option program (similar to Auctiva - auction software), setting up Master Options, Category specific options, and even down to setting up product specific options would be a breeze (e.g. if you sold clothes....say lace tops or T-shirts...or in my case a certain style earring that's all crystals versus one that is gemstones - each set of similar products would probably require a different set of options - material/bead, available lace colors as opposed to available T-shirt colors or sleeve styles - all things that are specific to the group and wouldn't work in a global option setting).

Copy/duplicate...if it was possible to duplicate an option (similar to the way we can create a new product by simply clicking on the 3D program "copy" button), as opposed to inserting code within the template...in my opinion, having a one click/one-step is a win-win all the way around - a real time saver with no worries or stress.

I think that this might be already possible in a way. just create an option template with all your options, and then copy it to your product and delete/hide the options you dont want. this may work for you, but for most stores, having a list of all options would be impractical....

This is exactly how I did my first run of creating my templates and having to individually delete each option you don't want from a global or single insert is extremeley time consuming, especially when you factor in that you may be going into hundreds of products to do this (or utilizing the import) - lots of wasted time. On the flip side, the way the program is set up, choosing individual options from your option area for a category or specific product is also a huge chunk of time because you cannot select multiple options and designate sort numbers in ONE step (this is why I suggested a one list with upper level assignments OR added columns for selection/sort numbers). Due to the time involved, that's why I eventually went to setting up as many Masters as I could for my Global options, and then individual options that are product specific. It's still time consuming but not as bad as either deleting or selecting things one a time.

So my point about having ONE list of options is simple - and it's about streamlining and better managing the options, in order for the Masters to function effectively - but you need an upper level above the options. Everyone could benefit by this and it doesn't really matter what you sell. You simply enter ALL of your options in one place and then assign them to a Master Option up one level (the benefit...only type options once, pick & choose to assign to a Category or product master...no time wasted deleting extra options you don't want, no time wasted picking options one at a time and for imports...just one option is needed - you just pick your Master for the Lace shirts, T-shirts, Crystal or Lampwork Earrings - instead of having to pick a global option, and several single options). Maybe a better way to explain this is to think of how we import our images to various folders we have set up...or the way we assign our products to certain categories - it's the same thing. You would simply create your options (type in or do an import), title your Masters (name them and place them in the next level up whether it's for a category or product specific), and then assign your options to these upper level Masters (and like Categories - you could have as many needed).

i implemented something like this: http://demos.mootools.net/Tips
but since there are limits to how the data is pulled in 3dcart, i decided to scrap it. again, would be resolved with HTML AREA.

You nailed it - there are definitely limits and although I thought I had the correct code for doing what I wanted to do in several cases...it never completely worked out as I thought it would. Since I'm not a programmer, I'm not sure if this was due to the mix of html and script, my browser, or a combo of all of them - but I know that I trust 3D and if they say it's a no-go...then I scrap because I don't want to inadvertently mess up something that will hurt how things are viewed, crawled, etc. With that in mind, this is why I always prefer to first work within program parameters without jumping immediately to the html section.

these are good subjects for another post, and i agree. but...if given a choice, i would prefer them to spend more time developing the software itself than creating more templates which we already have the freedom to change on our own

Ahhhh....I agree totally with improvements in the software - but tweeking the basic things may make a difference of retaining middle of the line user and also attracting a variety of new users for 3D in the future. I don't know the ratio between people with absolutely no experience (that are depending completely on 3D templates and would not even consider opening up an html template), to people like me with some programming, html knowledge and enough comfort level to try/research codes (even if it takes DAYS/WEEKS...) to the cream of the crop that have a boatload of programming/html/script knowledge and can re-arrange the templates and re-write codes in minutes. So - I would hope not only to see software improvements, but some of the little things like layout options for the product listing, amongst other things in the updates.

Yup - another long post